what we are learning this morning. >> two pages of notes found in his wallet and on his person as well, and that is the note that indicated where he was going to visit. and also gave and indication of what kind of motive, but nothing that we can confirm just yet, and for the investigation, we learned that he had contact with some of the places and a couple of the other places that it appears that he had employees there where he was asked to leave. so it is looking like he is possibly a motive for that is that he was slighted. >> interesting. joining me now for much more on this is sean turner, a professor at michigan state, and also a communicator at michigan state. >> thank you for having me. >> and more of what we have learned from the update from

michigan official, and they have been forth coming with what they have learned from the investigation, and part of it is that michigan state police said that the note they have found, and what they said, quote, gave an indication of maybe a motive, and they are obviously still working through it, but nothing is firmly confirmed yet, and of course, the man is now dead, and so what are you taking that as meaning when the question is going to remain why. >> yeah. well, thank you for having me on, kate, and i wanted to say at the outset as i watched press briefing, it is encouraging to see that at the outset that the focus remained on arielle, alex and brian, the students that we lost and their families, and i felt that it was entirely appropriate, and it is the case that we want to understand more of why this individual attacked our campus and students, and when i think about the information that we received this morning, the fact that this letter was there, and this

individual's backpack, and what it makes me wonder if there is a broader set of communication or behaviors that might have given the individuals in this person's atmosphere, his orbit, some indication that he was a ticking time bomb. look, it is too early the know that, but it is legitimate questions as we often talk about with these things, buzz we want to know if there is a point at which someone said or did something to prevent this from happening, and certainly when we see a note like this, there is an indication that there is something like that to this.

>> and they also said that he had two bus tickets. >> yes, it is, and we know that he snap and went on a horrible act, because that is not appear to be what happened here. there are clear indication of intent of motive, and some that came out to suggest that this individual had issues or gripes with other targets. and so to see that amount of ammunition that this individual had, to see that there was a bus ticket would indicate that this individual was not looking to come out and attack this campus and then end his life. and so we are fortunate that

this ended without any problems. >> and so, there are a lot of questions about this. and whenever something like this happens, it is appropriate for an organization to take a look at safety and measures and we will certainly look at that at michigan state university, but people need to know that as this is happening around the country and other universities, every time we have looked at our safety and security measures here, and we have made adjustments to make sure that the students or the faculty or the staff are safe here, i can tell you that the police are ever present here on campus, we will certainly take a look at

those things. >> it is no secret that i wear my emotions on my sleeve.

and i will go back to the classroom, and we will talk to the students, and we will let them know it is okay not to feel okay, and we will help them to get the support that they need. and we will talk to them and about what makes them feel safe on the campus and use that to make adjustments here on the campus, and kate, it is going to be a long time before that happens, because we have lost large members of the campus, and families who have received horrible news this week, and spartans who have horrible news this week. okay. we have breaking news to get to. the fulton county court has just

released sections of the special grand jury's final report, and this is of course, a long examination examining the efforts of donald trump and the allies to overturn the election results in georgia the 2020 presidential election in 2020, and so we have a team poring over this report as we get them, we will bring them to you, and now, patricia murray is a reporter for the "u.s. constitutional atlantic" and also we have michael murphy who is a former attorney, and so now, coming in we will have a beginning and middle and conclusion, and part of it will remain sealed and what are some of the reasons to keep part of

the report secret and why do part of it or none of it? >> well, i am glad to be with both of you, and i think that the judge mcburney was trying to be solemnic and split the baby in half and trying to make decisions on the prosecutor and who and what she is trying to charge, and also, the due process, and so the defendants in the case, and he is allowing both ends to be served there. i don't know how much we will see, and i mean, i understand with the redactions that we will get some of the meat or the potatoes and not quite get the meat, but we will see later as the week goes on, and as it goes on later in the week, but this is doing to give the prosecutors the chance to make a decision, but she is not bound by anything in the report, and she has complete discretion to charge or not charge, and add other

people, and make recommendation, but it is up to her, and this is a summary of the findings, and she is going to be looking at the unredacted versions, and remember, this special grand jury of georgia is not the norm. there is no playbook or cheat sheet for the judge to follow or the district attorney or the staff who prepared the report with grand jury. so we are in unchartered waters the, but something here in great detail about the deliberation, and i expect that we will find great correlation of those who fought the subpoenas and the recommendation or the concerns that the grand jury had about people being less than forth coming when they appeared before them. >> michael and patricia, we have sara murray who has been combing through it, and what are you seeing so far? >> kate, what we had gotten so far is a couple of pages from the report as they were saying

that the judge has pulled a lot of this back including recommendations of whether somebody should be charged with a crime, but the one section is frankly a paragraph on the belief that the witnesses lied before them, and in this paragraph, they recommended that the fulton county grand jury consider indicting some of the witnesses to perjury. the grand jury recommend that the district attorney seek appropriate indictments for such crimes where the evidence is compelling. so this is a sense of the tone of the grand jury, the belief that there were witnesses who came before them that lied under oath. their suggestion to the district attorney, and because ultimately it is up to her whether she is going to pursue indictments that maybe there is indictments worth pursuing coming to the perjury question. now, again, we are not seeing what the broader recommendations were or the names of the witnesses who they believe may have lied, but it is important. they wrote in the report that they believe unanimously, that there was no widespread fraud in

the 2020 election in georgia that could have upended the results, and people around the former president, and the former president contended that there was fraud despite the lack of evidence there, and they pointed out that they had heard from some witnesses there was fraud in this 2020 election case. >> interesting, sara. stick with me if you w in this i have a copy of, and this limited amount here, but it says that the majority of the grand jury beliefs that perjury may have been committed by one or more witnesses who came before it, and this is more of the interesting parts here, and no names. we are not getting any names here. >> well, first of all, we are knowing that it is a process going forward and it is something that fani willis is going to go forward and it is a

bucket that is above and beyond other recommendations made by the grand jury, but something that michael moore said so true and important, there is no playbook for what we are seeing here. there has never been a president indicted on criminal charges before, and we have never had this kind of the finding that there was no widespread fraud followed by these layers and layers and layers of actions by a former president and his associates and when you are looking at the list of witnesses who went before this grand jury, the governor, secretary of state, and multiple state lawmakers, rudy giuliani, mark meadows, cassidy hutchinson, his own assistant up there in the white house, and we are a glimpse of how broad and serious this situation is, and some said that i don't think that anything happened and i don't believe that there is fraud, and this is what else i know, and others were named targets in this investigation as well, and when fani willis asked that this

report be kept mostly under wraps which is what we are seeing today, she said that she wanted to protect the due process rights of future potential defendants, and i think that we are starting to see here that we will expect future defendants in this situation more than likely. >> michael, what do you think about that? >> i think that she is exactly right. i don't think any question that we will be seeing indictments coming out of investigation, and the d.a. would not have had the time and treasure invested into the case to be at this place. now, whether or not she decides to proceed on the perjury charges is interesting way to go, and it may be tougher, but it is striking me that she is really going to take the recommendations, and the testimony that she has got, and bolstered up the testimony that she got that trump made to the secretary of the state at the time looking for those votes, and at that point now, she is going to be moving forward. i don't know how broad the net will be.

but, you know, we have key players who she has subpoenaed, and you will have folks who both may have told half truths and complete false hohoods when the testified and the general assembly committees that when we are looking into this, and people who have made false statements or the grand jury believed made false statements to them, and so that compounds the investigation, and so, again, whether she looks at a few potential targets or the key players or trying to indict the quarterback or indict the whole team, and i don't know how deep she is going to go. she has to be thinking though, that i need to be both able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt which is the criminal standard. if i gave a conviction, and the court lets me move forward, and if i get a conviction, can i support the conviction on appeal in this state, and she is weighing it out at the same time. hopefully her comments about the

indictments being imminent or decisions being imminent, we will see them in relatively short order. >> yes, they are feeling more imminent today as portions are being released for sure. sara, you have more reporting. what are you hearing? >> well, as everyone was talking about a lot of the tone that we have heard from district attorney, from the judge in this case, and the tone that we are getting from this limited information from the grand jury report is that indictments are likely and what a lot of this is pointing to how much deference there is given to the district attorney in that case, and if you are looking at the conclusions of this report release, the grand jury wants to point out if they fail to include any violations, they said they acknowledge the discretion of the district attorney to seek indictments where there are cause. they are saying in the portions that we have not seen, we will

say that who if anyone should face criminal charges, and if there is anything that we missed, and we are not legal experts, but if in the statute there is something that evaded us, but where the district attorney believes there is evidence to pursue legal indictments, then she should go forward, and this is setting up the landscape, what the district attorney will do, and how it aligns to what the grand jury has recommended. >> sara, this is speaking to one thing that everyone was looking to when this came out is to what is the overall tone of the report or the release of the parts since so much would be and clearly is being held back is to take away that you are seeing so far is the deference, and you point to what i want to make sure is the statement of the history, sara, you said that this is from the opening of the grand jury report where they lay out very clearly that the grand jury heard extensive testimony

on the alleged technical fraud of the poll workers and the persons who are still claiming that such fraud took place, and we find by a unanimous vote that no widespread fraud took place in georgia in the georgia 2020 election that could result in overturning the election, and it is important for historical purposes. >> yes, and we may not be getting the juiciest part, and what everyone wants to see is what the grand jury recommended is if who or anyone should face crimes, and what we are getting is the outline of how they approached it and how seriously they took it. so they said we heard from 75 people, and people who want to say the inaccurate case that there is widespread fraud, and there is an undeniable claim there was no widespread fraud

about this, and regardless of what the former president said, and his allies say about this, and in the introduction they are laying out for the public, look, we did the homework, and this is not a circus level investigation, an deep dive of witnesses across the spectrum of the election administration, and the public officials to reach the conclusion, and the conclusion is the deference of the d.a. and it is up to fani willis to who she believes she can make the case against, and everyone they may have recommended in the grand jury report and fewer than that or potentially further than what this grand jury recommended. >> michael, what do you think about that? >> well, this is basically, if you are thinking of the one sentence-report, this is the basically grand jury saying, go get'em, madam district attorney, and we have looked at it, and we believe there is room for the case. so it seems that they are giving

her complete deference to her in that case, and this grand jury does not have the power to indict. she has to now present it to a criminal grand jury who can take the summary of the report and consider the witness testimony, the statements that were made, and they are not bound either by the special grand jury report, but this is basically an affirmation that for the district attorney that the investigation should move forward. now, again, she looks at it both from the facts and the law. she'll have the take into consideration the court that she may be in, and what the jury pool is going to look like, and all of the things that have to go into her decision, and it does not mean that she does not enforce the law or move forward with the matters brought forward, but she has to think about it in a case of this magnitude, because we are in historical waters here, and she going to be doing, and she has been doing it over the last couple of years. >> michael, you are getting to

the reality of, that this is the investigation about politics. i mean, obviously, it is going to if crime were committed in overturning an election, and what you are getting on and what i would like your opinion on is in this consideration is the big question remains is she going to go all of the way of going after donald trump, and there are risks with that? >> there are really risks with it, and i have said it before in now that we certainly see it as clear as possible that we are at the start of this. think about the number of motions and court challenges that are going on in cases about subpoenas is of grand jury proceedings and other legal proceedings now involving trump. so you can only begin to imagine the cases that will be filed and the motions that will be filed and the efforts to move the case, if there is an indictment to the federal court, and the

motions to dismiss the indictment, and the district attorney has to be thinking, my job is to move forward on cases, but it is also my job to look for the truth, and to pursue a conviction if i can. so she is thinking about it. she is thinking about the jury pool, and this is politics, and even though you are in fulton county and votes largely democratic, and there are parts of fulton county that is not, and it comes from the full county, and what if the case were moved to the northern district of the county and it is not that way, and the judges are friends of mine, but they are also controlled by republican appointees, and she has to be thinking about that, too, and how it would play out if she could secure a conviction, and her thought process cannot be limited to just, well, i heard this call from trump to raf

fenc fef entails. >> and now, thinking of perjury out there, and everyone who is thinking back to what they told the grand jury and what they said and how they said it and what they are facing now. >> i am sure that -- >> hold on, michael. go ahead, patricia. >> i am sure that there are phones around the country lighting up lawyer right now, and anybody who went in front of that grand jury, and they know who they are, and they have lied under oath, they have an entire extra bucket of legal problems

to face right now. one thing on the political reality in georgia, the real exposure for fani willis is up for re-election on the same ballot as donald trump is that crime rates are up, and willis has to demonstrate to fulton county voters that this is a good use of resources of her county and of their tax dollars, and there is just this incredible intense pressure on her to bring those crime numbers down as well, and if she is devoting immense dollars to donald trump who is not popular in fulton county, and he lost fulton county by double digits, but if she is exposed in ways that is sidetracked by this, and not taking care of the cases in front of her, that is the

political exposure she face, and she has a spiraling trial that she is trying right now, against the rappers, and the jury selection in that case is going to take an estimated three months, and so there is an immense amount on this district attorney's plate, and she is going to have to show the voters that it is worth it. >> sara, can you put a button on this, and it is not the end, and we have obviously been discussing that it is up to the d.a. and now, what's next? what is the expectation? >> the ball is in the d.a.'s court, and the judge has given her this breathing case, and that this report should not be out there in the full, and what is imminent? you said that it is imminent in the court sense and not that imminent that we will get coffee after this, so it is up to the d.a. when she has this case ready and go in front of the

regular d.a. to pursue indictments, and so as the other folks have noted what is playing in the back, and the longer you wait, to the closer to the campaign where donald trump has said that he is a candidate, so she is going to be facing pressure if she is bringing indictments she is going to have to move speedily, and she said that she is not the person who bends to the will of public pressure, but if you are in that job, it is very hard if that job not to. >> and so thank you for jumping on with the breaking news and i appreciate the detail. patricia and michael, thank you. and still up, ohio residents are demanding answers after the toxic train derailment and why officials pulled out of a community meeting and why officials could not show up. that is next.

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♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> and now in the center of ohio of that hazardous train derailment, there was a community meeting where they were hoping to get answers. jason carroll on the latest. >> everybody who came here was expecting a hell of a lot more than what they are getting here. >> reporter: frustration, anger and unanswered questions in east palestine, ohio. >> the kids say and as a member

of this community want to know. >> reporter: the major speaking at times through a bull horn to answer the questions through the distressed residents worried about returning to their home despite the evacuation orders lifted last week. >> you have done us wrong, and so far they have worked with us and fixing it, but if that stops, i will be the first one in line to fight this. >> reporter: officials are trying to answer the community's questions. >> you should know that what has been determined by the train station and others that based on the previous instances that everybody say -- >> reporter: as many residents are demanding more testing of the air, water and soil. >> we won't let them stop the testing until you are satisfied. that is when the testing stops. >> reporter: not present at the

community meeting folks from norfolk southern railroad. >> they didn't feel it was safe. >> reporter: and the company sent a statement saying that unfortunately after consulting with community leaders, we have become increasingly concerned about the growing physical threat to our employees. >> okay. if you are afraid that somebody from palestine is going to hurt your employees, what exactly did you do to us? >> i am feeling anger and frustration. i am scared for my family. i am scared for my town. i grew up here. i am related to 50% of them. >> reporter: cleanup efforts are under way, and the governor telling the residents wednesday that municipal water is safe to drink and the statement is coming after new test results of the state and the environmental protection agency found no detection of the contaminants and the toxic spill was contained the day after

derailment, and the tests have shown that the air quality is safe, and they are suggesting that those with private wells get the water tested. >> i will need help and do whatever it takes, whatever it takes to make this right. >> reporter: and right now, we are at leslie run, and this is a creek that runs through portions of the east palestine, and the cleanup effort is well under way here, and the e pa saying that they will be here as long as takes, but the residents are not so sure. kate? >> thank you, jason carroll. and now, the biden team is wondering if they should speak publicly about this series of shootdowns. first the chinese balloon taken down by the u.s. military two weeks ago and then the three other unidentified objects in airspace. now, lawmakers have been pushing biden to speak about this especially after they received a

classified brief about this. and we go to the white house now, and what is the issue behind this? why can't they make up their mind about this? >> well, a few factors behind this, and one thing to keep an eye on is how much information they can get behind those three unidentified objects, and president biden could speak about this as soon as today, and when he does speak about the chinese balloon and the three aerial objects shot down last weekend, it is going to reflect the most extensive remarks from the president which is fascination and concern, and now officials here in the u.s. are increasingly confident that the three objects shot down over the u.s. and canada friday and saturday, they were benign objects, but there are other details unknown as to who they

belong to, and whether it is a country or private entity, and of course, over the past two weeks, the officials are trying to glean as much information about the chinese spy balloon shot down nearly two weeks ago, and one area that the intelligence officials are trying to analyze is whether the balloon is inadvertently, accidentally changing course through the continental united states, and they know that walter reed hospital visit, if he is going to make any comments about that balloon or the other objects today. >> and joining us is national political analyst david sanger who is a national correspondent for the white house of course, and what are you hearing about the maybe, maybe not need to know nature about this discussions at the white house with the president and his team about speaking publicly about

this? >> well, he wants to speak publicly only if he has some news to convey here, and part of the problem is that the news about the chinese balloon, the initial one that we shot down over south carolina has been pretty much classified, and we are beginning to get more and more detail including what you heard which is as the times reported last night, we believe that this balloon started in h hynan island and didn't intend to go over the united states, and the others were space junkets and the best news is that they were not surveillance, but leftover weather balloons or other experiments, and therefore, the kind of thing that probably would have gone by

with no one shooting at it three weeks ago. >> and so, something else that your colleagues at the "times" reporting which is interesting detail, also, is that the reporting is that it took three days after, and i will call it the balloon crisis, before the united states told the chinese officials that they were trying to move it out of the airspace, and misread by the chinese of how quickly serious this is becoming. is biden's -- like, are they concerned about what this means in the broader context of the potential conflicts with china? >> kate, i think that this is the bigger issue. long after we have forgotten the balloon element of this, we will be remembering the fact that we have set up all of these hotline systems with the chinese, and many of them created after the 2001 incident in which chinese jet fighter crashed with a u.s.

intelligence gathering plane well off of the coast of china and killed a chinese pilot, and the american had to crash land in china, and after that incident where president bush also could not get the chinese leaders on the phone, they set up all of these procedures and none of them worked here. so what that is telling you is that if we got into something significant and say a crisis over taiwan or the south china sea, and where the chinese have been building the islands on the sand bars and creating military bases or in the philippines, we might have a very difficult time getting actual decisions made and communications. the secretary of defense lloyd austin could not get his equivalent to answer the phone at chinese defense ministry. >> that is something that i bet really stuck out to me when that

was reported. the action of the lawmakers coming out of the briefings isnoteis note noteworthy, and the overall threat to china now, and senators from both parties came out with stark warnings, and let me play this. >> china today is the single-most formidable adversary that the united states has faced. soviet union is not a technological or commercial power. >> the chinese have become more vigorous and real threat than ever before in our history. >> are you seeing it that way in your reporting? >> what is interesting, kate, this has been basically the accepted wisdom of the foreign policy world for many years, and you'll see it in the president's own national security strategy.

that is because of the cyber threats from china, and it is because of the industrial competition and semiconductors and software in ai and quantum computing, and that is all true before the balloon incident. and what is interesting is that it took something that is relatively low-tech, a balloon with probably a sophisticated sensor pack in it, but one that you could see to wake up congress. the concern that i have right now, kate, is that democrats and republicans are in such a competition of who can be tougher than china, and in china you can see a mirror image of that in the internal debate, and this is how you get two countries to descend into confrontation. so part of what the president is seeking to do, if he is going to speak on this, and i suspect that he will soon is to try to come up with some ways that china and u.s. can talk to each other again. it is going to be interesting to

see in munich where i have just arrived for the security conference whether secretary blinken and his equivalent will meet, and it is unclear if they will. >> always interesting that you are there for that, because so much does come out of that conference. thank you, david. ahead for us, we are poring through, and looking through that grand jury report released from georgia, and how is former president donald trump and his legal team going to be released from the tidbits so far? details from the report up next. inner voice (graphic designer): as a new small business owner... ...i've learned that trying to be the “cool” boss... ...is a lot harder when you're actually the “stressed” boss. inner voice (furniture maker): i know everything about my new furniture business. well, everything except... ...the whole “business” part. not anymore. with quickbooks, you can confidently manage your business. new business? no problem. yeah. success starts with intuit quickbooks.

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out of georgia have now been released. the panel in fulton county have been investigating efforts by donald trump and the allies to overturn the 2020 election results there, and they say in the report that they believe one or more witnesses who came before the panel may have committed perjury. the grand jury also believes there is no widespread voter fraud, rejecting donald trump's repeated conspiracy theories. we go to kristen for more on donald trump and his camp? have they responded? >> they are crafting a response, and it should be out again at any moment, but i will tell you that i have spoken to multiple advisers ahead of this release, and they were concerned about these potential criminal referrals, and donald trump, himself, grew agitated about this continued georgia probe. i spoke to him, and he repeated

that constant defense that he has had for himself that he said it is a perfect phone call, and he went a step further, and he said that it is free speech, and it is his opinion, and it is not a crime, and there is nothing wrong with that phone call, and again this is with the secretary of state brad rafensburger, and that it was not done in secret. so we will see what happen when we get that response, but another thing, kate, it is very clear that he is going to take issue with that part of the probe of the release of the report when he is talk about how they unanimously decided there is no widespread fraud in the 2020 election which is something that he still repeats today. >> thank you, kristchkristen, f reporting. and now, the jobs report shocked everyone how strong it is, but a forecast is pouring

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a new warning about the u.s. economy. the nonpartisan congressional budget office says unemployment is likely to surge from 3.4% where it is now to over 5% this year. that's what they project. they're also forecasting a slower exit from the struggles with inflation we've been battling for so long. joining me is cnn economics and political commentator, and washington post opinion columnist. i want to get your thoughts. the outlook from the cbo is

pretty bleak, with unemployment rising, inflation sticking around longer. what do you see? >> well, yes, it's not good news. relative to some other potential scenarios like a terrible recession -- >> armageddon? >> yes. 5% unemployment would not be good but it's obviously much better than some of the recessions past, including the most recent one. but we have to take all of this with a grain of salt. you know the expression that predictions are difficult to make, it is especially difficult to tell what the heck is going on with the economy. >> the latest column i read with quite a bit of fascination, your headline was, what you said, don't believe what anyone says about the economy, including me. and you also wrote this, it's the best of times, the worst of times, the spring of hope, the winter of despair. everyone is looking at the same

set of numbers and somehow coming to opposite conclusions. why do you think this economy is so difficult to predict, to really see a pattern in and be able to predict the future? is it just that the pandemic was so disruptive to everything? >> i think that's part of it. we don't really have a previous period that is quite comparable to learn from, to extrapolate from. we've obviously dealt with recessions before, but this was a weird one. we've had government interventions in the face of recession before, but this was a different and much more expansive version, the kinds of stimulus we had this time around. so it's very hard to learn from the past because we're out of sample as economists would say. but beyond that, the data themselves are not as necessarily good as they could be because survey responses are so much poorer today. >> so interesting. great column. great to see you. thanks for coming in. thank you all so much for

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